Talk:Ergoamides

Generic Molecule Image

The generic molecule image doesn't jive with the table because there's a CH3 group attached where there should be a generic R6. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.180.95.180 (talk) 16:30, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Need to add IP-LAD

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-Isopropyl-6-nor-lysergic_acid_diethylamide Ethanbas ^(talk) 09:58, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Renaming page to 'Substituted lysergamide'

This is against Wikipedia's format. And lysergamide (i.e. as a classification) is frequently used in academic publications; ergoamide is starting to be used as it isn't ambiguous, i.e. lysergamide is also a single chemical, but ergoamide is simply a classification.

These are quotes from Graeme Bartlett made on Feb 26, 2025 in Wikipedia: Village pump (idea lab) ⇩

"There was a discussion on the generic case, which would name a family of chemicals with an "s" on the end, not adding "substituted". I will check if it is in MOS:CHEM."

"See here: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Chemistry/Compound classes#Article title, with "is plural if named after a parent compound".

And this is his comment that was included in the edit that renamed the page from 'Substitued lysergamide' to 'Lysergamides':

"back to title originally used and in complience with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Chemistry/Compound classes" Wk472 (talk) 21:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi Wk472. Thanks to you and Graeme Bartlett for bringing WP:CHEMGROUP to my attention, I wasn't aware of the plural naming convention for compound groups. So that part is fine. However, per WP:CHEMNAME (chemicals), WP:COMMONNAME (general), and WP:MEDTITLE (drug) Wiki policies, the article title should be the most commonly used and recognizable name. "Lysergamides" of course has broad mainstream use, whereas I don't recall having ever encountered the name "ergoamides" before. In Google Search, "lysergamides" has 185,000 results, while "ergoamides" has 752 results. Moreover, the compounds in question are specifically amides of lysergic acid rather than of ergoline. Thus, I don't feel that moving the page to "ergoamides" was appropriate and feel that it should be moved back to "lysergamides"—even if "ergoamide" has the advantage of not conflicting with "lysergamide" the compound (i.e., lysergic acid amide). Requesting input from Graeme Bartlett on this also. Thank you. – AlyInWikiWonderland (talk, contribs) 01:20, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Quote: "Thus, I don't feel that moving the page to "ergoamides" was appropriate and feel that it should be moved back to "ergoamides". Don't you mean: "... should be moved back to "lysergamides"? Carlstak (talk) 14:37, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Whoops, that was a bad typo. Yes you are correct. Fixed it, sorry! – AlyInWikiWonderland (talk, contribs) 20:40, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Have initiated move request below. – AlyInWikiWonderland (talk, contribs) 02:42, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 23 March 2025

Ergoamides → Lysergamides – This page was recently moved from "Substituted lysergamide" to "Ergoamides" by User:Wk472 following brief discussion here and here. Removal of the "substituted" part and change to plural ('s') seems to be appropriate per WP:MOSCHEM cited by User:Graeme Bartlett. However, there was no agreement or consensus about the "ergoamide" part. Per policies like WP:CHEMNAME, WP:COMMONNAME, and WP:MEDTITLE, article titles should be the most commonly used and recognizable name. "Lysergamide" has broad mainstream use, whereas "ergoamide" is a relatively rare term. In Google Search, "lysergamide(s)" has 244,000 hits, while "ergoamide(s)" has 1,070 results. In Google Scholar, it's 1,590 results versus 73 results, respectively. Moreover, the article is specifically supposed to be about lysergic acid amides. Hence, the article should be renamed back to "Lysergamides" (without the "substituted" part and with plural 's' retained). Thanks. – AlyInWikiWonderland (talk, contribs) 02:40, 23 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 12:41, 30 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 03:23, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

@AlyInWikiWonderland "Moreover, the article is specifically supposed to be about lysergic acid amides."

"There are three main ergot alkaloid classes, clavines, ergoamides (lysergamides), and ergopeptides, with 3 belonging to the ergoamide class."

Jamieson CS, Misa J, Tang Y, Billingsley JM (2021-04-29). "Biosynthesis and synthetic biology of psychoactive natural products". Chemical Society Reviews. 50 (12): 6950–7008. doi:10.1039/D1CS00065A. 2.5 Lysergic acid and LSD, p. 6970 Wk472 (talk) 03:31, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

In the quote, checking the ref, "3" should be bolded and is referring to LSD. I'm not quite sure what you intend to say, since you haven't given any explanation. But perhaps that "ergoamides" and "lysergamides" are intended to be synonyms? If so, alright. But "lysergamides" still has far greater use and hence my basis for moving the article back stands. – AlyInWikiWonderland (talk, contribs) 04:05, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

@AlyInWikiWonderland In the quote, checking the ref, "3" should be bolded and is referring to LSD.

Thanks for pointing that out. What's ironic is that there are only three naturally-occurring ergoamides, ergine, ergonovine, and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (not including their epimers, e.g. isoergine), and that's what I thought they were referring to. I've also seen ergoclavines, so this ergo prefix is the new thing: all three classes now begin with ergo, thus standardizing the nomenclature. Lysergamides has a sloppy feel, sounds like something you would heard on Nickelodean. Ergoamides may not be fully accepted yet, but hopefully one day it will be. Wk472 (talk) 05:29, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Chemicals has been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 03:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)